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Is Shared Security A Myth? With Toghrul Maharramov

Welcome to episode 10 of EigenLayer Unlocked, for a much more broad overview of what shared security really is, how to think about the concept of shared security, and where EigenLayer fits in. Following up on his earlier thoughts around modularity being a meme, we decided to bring Toghrul on to discuss his mental model for shared security and restaking. In the crypto world, shared security is often misunderstood as a term. In today's presentation, Toghrul walks us through why the lack of full shared security isn’t necessarily a bad thing, and how it opens up more opportunities for experimentation across L2s, restaking protocols, and other onchain systems. He also made a point to define the four key characteristics of shared security as it relates to cryptoeconomic systems. We touched on the idea of avoiding full interdependence amongst two separate systems which means individual failures are isolated, ensuring the wider ecosystem remains secure. However, this also breaks the core messaging for shared security, lending itself to a "partial shared security" terminology. Overall, this was a really good talk and towards the end we got into usecases, risks, and how Toghrul is viewing the restaking landscape. Enjoy. The Rollup 𝗘𝗶𝗴𝗲𝗻𝗟𝗮𝘆𝗲𝗿 𝗨𝗻𝗹𝗼𝗰𝗸𝗲𝗱 𝗶𝘀 𝗽𝗿𝗲𝘀𝗲𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗱 𝗯𝘆 𝗔𝗹𝘁𝗟𝗮𝘆𝗲𝗿 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗣𝗼𝗹𝘆𝗺𝗲𝗿 𝗔𝗹𝘁𝗟𝗮𝘆𝗲𝗿 is an open and decentralized protocol that accelerates the launch of native and restaked rollups as well as AVSs. Our flagship product ‘restaked rollups’ has been an industry disruptor, unlocking the true value of rollups with enhanced security, decentralization, fast finality, and interoperability. AltLayer also recently launched the market’s first AVS-as-a-Service platform called “Wizard”- which templatizes AVS tools for convenience, hyper-accelerating their adoption and fast-tracking scalability for Web3. Follow AltLayer's Twitter: https://twitter.com/alt_layer and Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/altlayer 𝗣𝗼𝗹𝘆𝗺𝗲𝗿 is the first real-time interoperability solution that combines message passing and state streaming into an infinitely scalable network layer for the upcoming appchain meta. It can scale alongside L2 block times and leverage the security guarantees of connected rollups while offering re-org protection. Check it out here: https://www.polymerlabs.org/ 00:45 Introduction 02:46 The Definition of Shared Security 06:57 Why Partial Shared Security Is Superior 12:59 Understanding DA and Finality in L2s 16:54 Can An L2 Cause Ethereum To Fail? 20:54 Restaking With Non-Native Assets 28:07 Toghrul’s Biggest Restaking Concern 33:18 Restaked RWAs Are A Problem 36:03 Intersubjectivity Thoughts 40:14 Slashing Endgame 43:26 Do AVSs Need Tokens? Scroll Website: https://scroll.io/ Scroll Socials: https://x.com/Scroll_ZKP Toghrul Maharramov Socials: https://x.com/toghrulmaharram 𝗪𝗲 𝘁𝗿𝘆 𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗯𝗲𝘀𝘁 𝘁𝗼 𝗽𝗿𝗼𝗱𝘂𝗰𝗲 𝗵𝗶𝗴𝗵-𝗾𝘂𝗮𝗹𝗶𝘁𝘆, 𝗻𝗼𝗻-𝗯𝗶𝗮𝘀𝗲𝗱, 𝗲𝗱𝘂𝗰𝗮𝘁𝗶𝗼𝗻𝗮𝗹 𝗰𝗼𝗻𝘁𝗲𝗻𝘁 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗰𝗿𝘆𝗽𝘁𝗼 𝗲𝗰𝗼𝘀𝘆𝘀𝘁𝗲𝗺. 𝗦𝘂𝗽𝗽𝗼𝗿𝘁 𝘂𝘀 𝘄𝗵𝗶𝗹𝗲 𝗹𝗲𝗮𝗿𝗻𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗺𝗼𝗿𝗲 𝗮𝗯𝗼𝘂𝘁 𝗶𝗺𝗽𝗼𝗿𝘁𝗮𝗻𝘁 𝗰𝗼𝗻𝗰𝗲𝗽𝘁𝘀 𝗯𝘆 𝗰𝗹𝗶𝗰𝗸𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗮𝗻𝘆 𝗼𝗳 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝗹𝗶𝗻𝗸𝘀 𝗯𝗲𝗹𝗼𝘄 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗳𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗿𝗲𝘀𝗼𝘂𝗿𝗰𝗲𝘀: Website: https://therollup.co/ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1P6ZeYd.. Podcast: https://therollup.co/category/podcast Follow us on X: https://www.x.com/therollupco Follow Rob on X: https://www.x.com/robbie_rollup Follow Andy on X: https://www.x.com/ayyyeandy Join our TG group: https://t.me/+8ARkR_YZixE5YjBh The Rollup Disclosures: https://therollup.co/the-rollup-discl . . . 𝗗𝗜𝗦𝗖𝗟𝗔𝗜𝗠𝗘𝗥: 𝘐𝘯𝘷𝘦𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘯 𝘤𝘳𝘺𝘱𝘵𝘰𝘤𝘶𝘳𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘤𝘺 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘋𝘦𝘍𝘪 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮𝘴 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘪𝘯𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬𝘴 𝘪𝘯𝘤𝘭𝘶𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘵𝘦𝘤𝘩𝘯𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘭 𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘬, 𝘩𝘶𝘮𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘳𝘳𝘰𝘳, 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮 𝘧𝘢𝘪𝘭𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦. 𝘈𝘵 𝘤𝘦𝘳𝘵𝘢𝘪𝘯 𝘱𝘰𝘪𝘯𝘵𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘳𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘯𝘦𝘭, 𝘸𝘦 𝘮𝘢𝘺 𝘦𝘢𝘳𝘯 𝘢 𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘪𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯 𝘰𝘳 𝘧𝘦𝘦 𝘢𝘴 𝘢 𝘴𝘱𝘰𝘯𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴𝘩𝘪𝘱, 𝘪𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘪𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘤𝘢𝘴𝘦 𝘸𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘢𝘭𝘸𝘢𝘺𝘴 𝘮𝘢𝘬𝘦 𝘴𝘶𝘳𝘦 𝘪𝘵 𝘪𝘴 𝘤𝘭𝘦𝘢𝘳. 𝘞𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘴𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘤𝘵𝘭𝘺 𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘥𝘶𝘤𝘢𝘵𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭 𝘤𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘦𝘯𝘵 𝘱𝘭𝘢𝘵𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘮, 𝘯𝘰𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘸𝘦 𝘰𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘴 𝘧𝘪𝘯𝘢𝘯𝘤𝘪𝘢𝘭 𝘢𝘥𝘷𝘪𝘤𝘦. 𝘞𝘦 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘧𝘦𝘴𝘴𝘪𝘰𝘯𝘢𝘭𝘴 𝘰𝘳 𝘭𝘪𝘤𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘥𝘷𝘪𝘴𝘰𝘳𝘴. #EigenLayer #ModularBlockchains #Ethereum #Scroll

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Audio
1:09:18

#182 - DARIYA KHOJASTEH

Dariya is a Co-Founder at ⁠Layer3⁠, the consumer attention layer for Web3. Previously, he built several apps, sold an Instagram network, and launched Mastermind, a mentorship platform. Follow Dariya on X ⁠@DariyaKho⁠ 0:00 - Selling Pokemon cards as a kid 7:32 - Building curated accounts on Instagram 15:59 - Being early to Instagram and learning to grow audiences 21:50 - Dariya’s favorite apps he built when he was young 28:51 - Monetizing intangible value with crypto 38:06 - Discovering crypto as a “nerd on the internet” 46:46 - Learning to express creativity in design versus code 48:33 - Making products that make users feel good 55:52 - The origin story behind Layer3 1:01:26 - Layer3’s business model and recent success 1:05:06 - What’s next for Layer3 Mint this episode for free onchain on Base at ⁠⁠pods.media/pod-of-jake/182-dariya-khojasteh⁠⁠ For more episodes, go to ⁠⁠podofjake.com⁠⁠. Previous guests include ⁠⁠Mark Cuban⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Vitalik Buterin⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Brian Armstrong⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Balaji Srinivasan⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Keith⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Rabois⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Ali Spagnola⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Anthony Pompliano⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Raoul Pal⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Julia Galef⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Jack Butcher⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Tim Draper⁠⁠, and over 100 others alike. Learn from founders and CEOs of companies like ⁠⁠OpenAI⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Coinbase⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Solana⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Polygon⁠⁠, ⁠⁠AngelList⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Oura⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠Replit⁠⁠, and investors from ⁠⁠Founders⁠⁠ ⁠⁠Fund⁠⁠, ⁠⁠a16z⁠⁠, ⁠⁠Union Square Ventures⁠⁠, and many more. I appreciate your support and hope you enjoy. Thanks to ⁠⁠⁠Chase Devens⁠⁠⁠ for the show notes and ⁠⁠⁠Yiction⁠⁠⁠ for the music. Lastly, I love hearing from fans of the pod. Feel free to email me any time at ⁠⁠jake@blogofjake.com⁠⁠. Thank you!